The Battle of Delville Wood began on this day, 15th July 1916

[Woestynryer]

Today is the commemoration of the day when thousands of brave young South African young men were slaughtered by the Germans in WW1.All because they had to keep a forest in the Somme at all cost.

Let's not forget their sacrifices.

The Western Front Today - South African Memorial, Delville Wood
Updated - Sunday, 25 August, 2002

In 1916 the wood known as Bois d'Elville, near Longueval (9 miles from Albert), (and christened 'Devil's Wood' by allied troops) was a major German defensive feature.

A museum on the site today tells the story of the battle for the wood well. The South African Brigade was attached to the 9th Scottish Division and given the task of capturing the wood in July 1916 as part of the Somme Offensive.

On 15 July at dawn the South African regiment went in following a heavy artillery battle: they managed to clear the southern edge of German forces. The remainder of the wood was still in German hands.

Hand to hand fighting ensued until the South Africans were relieved on the night of 19 July, having lost 766 dead among the four battalions alone.

Throughout poor weather (it rained often) and enemy artillery fire which reached a crescendo of 400 shells a minute, the surrounding landscape was transformed into a mess of broken, stumpy tree roots and massive shell holes.

Mud and rainwater covered bodies of South African and German forces alike - many bodies remain in the wood today (which is now in private hands).

The wood was never entirely taken by the South African forces, despite huge efforts to do so. It wasn't until another month of fierce fighting had taken place, on 25 August, that 14th (Light) Division finally took the wood and overcame German resistance.

Delville Wood remained the most costly action the South African Brigade fought on the Western Front.

During the final great German push of March 1918 the wood was again taken by the Germans on 24 March but was recaptured by 38th (Welsh) Division on 28 August.

Of the 3150 South African soldiers that went into the wood,only 700 emerged.

Today the wood and nearby memorial is looked after by the South African Government.

The Delville Wood cemetery sited opposite the memorial contains 5,493 burials. Almost two-third of these are unknown

http://www.firstworldwar.com/today/delvillewood.htm

http://www.webmatters.net/france/ww1_delville3.htm

[liza81]

Wow, a rather solemn post. I had no idea about this! Interesting that we were attached to the Scottish. I know that the germans called them kilt-wearing laddies "Ladies from hell"

see:
Known as the "Ladies from Hell" by the German regiments as well as many of the allied forces, kilted scottish foot soldiers were known for their fierce fighting style. Author Daniel A. McNiven, who traces his family name back in Scottish history to 1100 A.D., pays tribute in his book "The Kilted Ladies from Hell" not only to his ancestors but also to Scotland's never-ending struggle for freedom. This photo is believed to be circa 1940 London.

Anyway, that was a huge loss of life for us, wasn't it? It's right that it should be remember. Thank for the post woestie.

[muXimus]

Just A Question.

Do You guys think the black population of South Africa cares what happened to those afrikaners. Do you think they are sympathetic?

[Woestynryer]

Our young democracy is still forming a new kind of patriotism.More united than the previous,so yes,they should feel proud of those Afrikaners.Might I add they were not just Afrikaners but English South Africans as well.Why do you think it was only white Afrikaners that died? Many black South Africans died too.

The idea of being a 'New South African' is about feeling patriotism for being a South African,no matter what you skin colour was or is.

You can ask the same question the other way round......do whites feel sympathy for the black South Africans that died fighting in WW1 or WW2? We are well aware of their sacrifices.The only reason I posted this on here because it was commerated on this day.There was black soldiers at Deville Wood too.The commoration of Delville Wood today is not for the 'white' soldiers that died,but for all South Africans that participated that died.

I would say yes,we are proud of them.Why shouldn't we be? We are building towards a common goal of being South African.Maybe they fought as seperate batallions,but sure as hell fought for the same goal.For a free and just world we owe our gratefulness to.

I for one are proud of them no matter what colour they were.They were fellow SOUTH AFRICANS!

Why should black South Africans not feel the same?

[muXimus]

I'm Not really a fan of south african wars, but can i just ask one more question. Did this balck soldiers you speak of volunteer to join the army. were they proud to supprt this worhy course of the oppressor.

There is no logic in willingly fighting your oppressors battle for him. If this black man died in this battles|wars. Why would you fight in a battle, when you know that after its over you are still going to be somebodies kaf*fir.

Maybe i am just very backwards, stuck in the past, maybe i dont have enough historical knowledge. but then again all i need to know is that, whites killed my people, raped my great ..grand mothers. Hey maybe we should forget it ever happened forgive and forget, we could even smile about it, discuss it over tea with my white brothers and sisters.

If you ask me this democracy is non existant.

If you think i am being unreasonable, please shed some light on me.

[Woestynryer]

Hello Maximus,

Well I'm sorry if you feel that way because you seem to lose a lot of sleep,and energy,that could have been used more constructivly.

Not sure where you are but I assume you're in America.

The same old rhetoric you're using about .....'our people being raped and murdered.....' is also used by some well known people in South Africa.'White extremists'.

Now,I'm not saying that you are an extremist.What I'm saying for every action there's a reaction.You're going to complain about the 'whites' this and that.You're going to get a white guy doing precisely the same about blacks.Some true,and some just lies to give reason to unjust causes.
Many people can tell stories about unjust things that was commited against them by someone from another colour.Even me.The question is am I going to let it keep me down and deny me from the millions of good people out there of that colour? No,My common sense tells me for every A-hole out there that is black or white,you get a 1000 good people.

Then you get people in the middle.People like Nelson Mandela.I'm a follower of Nelson Mandela.There are millions of people that support what he stands for.We don't always have to agree,but there are certain values we as humans can all agree on.I'm not Nelson Mandela.I'm just a 'white kid', but a person sharing Nelson Mandela's values and just things he stands for in life.The things Nelson Mandela stand for is not a white thing.It's not a black thing either.It's a human thing.Colourless.

It's people's choices where they want to stand in life.If they want to believe radical views,enforce it in their lives,and live by it,then that's their joice.Maybe it gives meaning to their lives or fills some shortcoming they cannot find from something else.Or people can accept injustices have been done,work towards a better world,and try not for those things to ever happen again.

I'll give you a quick history lesson.

When gold was discovered during the last century Britain and South Africa was at war.1899.The British against the Boers,or Afrikaners as we know today.Early in the war it was agreed that this is a 'white man's' war.(This is what you probably would have liked happening in WW1 or WW2?)

Britain thought it would be walkover.A bunch of farmers against the mightiest army in the world.It turned out to be Britain's 'Vietnam'.Their costliest war before WW1,and the bloodiest and most humiliating.500 000 Bitish Empire soldiers against a Boer force of only 28 000.

The war went on for three years.Because it went on for such a long time and costing money,Britain started 'scorched earth'.They burned down all farm houses and killed all lived stock.40 000 farm houses was burned down and millions of animals killed.

Afrikaner Woman and children not fighting the war were herderd into as what we know today as 'concentration camps.'
With them the black people working on their farms was also send to these concentration camps.

Dysentry,malnutrition and diseases broke out and it's estimated that 27 000 'white' woman and children died including approx. 20 000 black people.

The Boer fighters spirit was nearly broken.Everything they fought for was either dead,killed or burned down.

The English generals was getting bad publicity back home for all the English soldiers being killed,so they had to make a quick plan.The British went one step further to crush the Boers.They armed tribes,and paid them to fight their war for them.In their view it was better to have locals killed,then their own.

These black soldiers under the British command commited horrendous crimes,pillaging and raping woman left over alone on farms,their husbands out in the veld, to fight against the British.Some Boers affected hated the blacks even more because of this.

Now Maximus,First we can hate the British, and we can hate the blacks for the atrocities that happened to my people.We can go even way back in history before this.But why would I want to do that?I won't forget it and neither should you.The thing is I'm not going to walk around with this information and throw it around like people owe me something.I'm my own person and what happened then was different times with different circumstances.I'm not going to blame you for those atrocities.That's the 'ammunition' of a weak person.I'm a better person than that.That's why people live Nelson Mandela.He looks at the future and what we as humans can achieve.You never hear him moaning about his time in prison or blaming anyone.If he did people would not have look upon him with the greatness they do.

What about all those black people,servants and friends,that died with my people in the concentration camps?It's easy to hate.It's not so easy to be a compassionate man and forgive your enemies.

If it wasn't for a certain British lady called EMily Hobhouse,the atrocites of the concentration camps would never have been known.What did the Afrikaner do?Did they hate the British and start killing them after the war? Well,some did hate the British,and for good reason too.Some lost whole families.Only if they had a role model like Nelson Mandeal then.Things would have been different.Maybe not much but every little helps.

The Afrikaners went and built a monument of this British lady called Emily Hobhouse,right on top of one of the Biggest concentration camps in Bloemfontein to say thank you for her humanity in helping them.She was British,part of the enemy,but she was an angel in disguise.Helping them.That I see as admirable.

WW1 broke out.South Africa is a British colony.1910 We become a Union,and 1961 we become a Republic.

It's about 17 years after the boer war.Many of the Afrikaner soldiers still lived.Most hated the British for what happened in the Boer war,so when England went to war with Germany there wasn't much sympathy.Germany tried to help the boers during the boer war but not officially.

So,back to you question.The soldiers that joined during both World Wars joined as volunteers.Many of the Afrikaners that fought actually went and helped the same guys that they fought against.A job is a job.You might just join the army because it's a job and you need the money.This happens all over the world.

Go and read this website about black South African troops on the troopship Mendi WW1.Very interesting read and it makes me proud that they are South African.I would like to hear and see the same pride when a black kid read about the troops of Delville Wood.Not because they were white.But because they were South African.Born from the same soil as the soldiers of the troopship Mendi.

The story always gives me goosebumps and show what we as South Africans are made of regardless of colour.

http://www.allatsea.co.za/shipwrecks/mendiwreck.htm


WW2.The Boer war is still not forgotten and people are still bitter.Once again THousands of black and white South Africans volunteer to go and fight.Many of these white soldiers are shunned by people and communities because they are seen collaborating with the 'old' enemy,which is Britain.

One well known Boer president once said,and I always believe this to be a great remark to answer one of your questions.One should never forget about the past,but you should not let the past take control of your future....anyhow,that's just one I made up now but here's what Paul Kruger said. 'Take the good from the past,and build the future on it'.

If we go and think carefully.If those black and white soldiers did not go and fight for our freedom during WW1 and WW2? If South Africa fell under Nazi Germany and became a Nazi state there's no doubt in my mind we would have been worse off today.As bad as the apartheid government was they would have looked like Micky Mouse VS Freddy Kruger

Black soldiers contributions to SOuth Africa is not forgotten.What we must remember is,it's not a black and white country anymore.We want to create one nation,feeling pride in things we as South Africans achieved.How will be do this? To feel proud of each other? Not being talking about them and us.Black and white.

That's not how I see it.We're one nation with warts and all.We have,and want to make it work.At least the majority of South Africans have the same dream.The only problem is,it's the small radical groups keeping our progress behind.The people that still want to make things into a black/white issue.

We are our own people.We choose what road we want to walk.Dwell in the past and take all the negative,or like Paul Kruger said.
'Let's take the good from the past and build the future on it.'

[Woestynryer]

Maximus - Here's a recent story of a Afrikaner woman's family wiped out by a trusted 'black' employee.

This is just to show there's always two sides to a story.

The question is will you walk around with hate,or will you be a stronger better man and go forward.

Take note of what this woman says about this black guys mother.......

http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?f...icleId=2259272