Jan Smuts......Great South African

[Woestynryer]

Did you know Jan Smuts was.....

One of the founders of the League of nations?(United Nations)
Co-Founder of the RAF? Royal Air Force
Founding father of 'Holism'
Good friend of Winston Churchill
There's a monument of Jan Smuts in central London.(Walked past it the other day)

(Off the topic.....Did you know the oldest airforce IN THE WORLD is the RAF.......and the SECOND OLDEST Airforce.....
that of South Africa?!! )
No surprise there if you take that Smuts was a co-founder.

Smuts had vision that not many Afrikaner leaders had during his time.If he became prime minister there is no doubt in my mind that we would have skipped the wasted apartheid years.Only with time gone, people realise the true greatness of great mortals.

Still to this day a great man and a hero to many.

[ches]

Um. Jan Smuts was Prime Minister. He lost in 1948 to the National Party, so I presume Woestynryer means that had he won the elections in 1948 we might have not suffered apartheid.

At the Paris Peace Conference, Smuts worked closely with Woodrow Wilson, in advocating a League of Nations. Smuts returned to South Africa after the signing of the Versailles Treaty in 1919 and soon afterwards became prime minister. Smuts lost power in 1924 but later returned to office as deputy prime minister (1933-39) and prime minister (1939-48). Source

While the United Party was obviously better than the National Party, they weren't much better. Perhaps they lacked the Nazi views of Verwoerd, but they certainly weren't a party for the liberation of all South Africans.

[Woestynryer]

Thanks Ches.You're right.I meant if his party won.Forget sometimes the UK don't have a president but a prime minister.Taking how Tony runs the country I'm sure I can be forgiven.

I'd say Smuts' party was conservative for our times but quite liberal for those days.

The political landscape would have totally been different if his party won.

Another great leader was of course Gen. Louis Botha.A great Boer war general and supporter of the Allies during WW2.

These two figures got a lot of flak from their own people for their support towards Britain.I don't support those views by the majority of Afirkaners,BUT It's Understanable why the majority of Afrikaners felt the resentment towards Britain.The involvement Britain had in South Africa,and the aftermath of the boer war had a huge affect on the physche of the Afrikaner people.

What makes these two Afrikaners still great is because they were willing to look past things that kept English and Afrikaners 'apart' and were looking at things to bring them together.Call it 'reconciliation' for those days.

My father an Afrikaner,joined WW2 as a 15 year-old kid and did his tours in North Africa and Italy.He was a staunch supporter of these two leaders.Like these two leaders he was seen as a traitor when the war ended and he returned home by his own people.

I believe that most of the concept of reconciliation being used today, comes from Smuts and Botha, who tried to built 'reconciliation' between boer and brit after the boer war.There are many similarities between what was done by them,and what was done by Nelson Mandela who is the leader in giving the pase of black/white reconciliation.

You can understand why Nelson Mandela loved Louis Botha.Both great men and both great South Africans that knew there's only one way forward and that's to reconcile.

[ches]

Well, I'd imagine that the Afrikaner people at the time were rather disgusted that the government was supporting the Rooinekke who had "recently" been at war with them, against the Nazis, who they at least sympathised with over the Superior Race issue. That was WW2, however, not WW1. I believe that the issues the Afrikaners had with South Africa supporting England in WW1 was "why are we helping fight England's war?"

[Woestynryer]

Ches - resentment is a funny thing.Many of the people that fought in the boer war or lost family members in the concentration camps still lived in WW2.

WW2 the resentment was still running deep,not less.

Other than that Germany helped the boer during the Boer war.

Remember that Germany during the boer war was not nazi Germany.

I don't think it made much difference to the boers.Germany was just Germany to those people.

The boer war and the aftermath still runs deep inside Afrikaner culture.It's unfortunately just one of those things.Just look at the English.WW2 and the resentment some of these people still hold against Germans still runs deep.And not even to talk about the resentment the Irish hold against the English,or the English against the Scots!And that war was a very long time ago.

I think the difference we have to make here between the two groups of people you get is,the ones willing to forgive and move on,and the ones still clinging to negative things,in order to be bitter.The latter usually keeps everyone behind.

Make no mistake.I love the boer war history,the nostalgic stories and the have deep feelings for the concentration camps.The stories that are told on both sides are so interesting and heart wrenching.However,I don't feel bitter about it or animosity against anyone.People falling into this forgiving category are people like Mandela,Botha and Smuts.I'm sure you too and many other on this board.We're the main artery and the real builders of South Africa.Basically the main group of all South Africans fall in this category.Everything else is left or right,or just extreme.