This might sound silly.......

[Karagatho]

All my life I've had what can only be called a luke warm relationship with God ,but never the
less he has a job for me of some sort, which I've been shown will begin
when I'm 31 ....
(Yes I know you probably think I'm a bit loony already, not even past the first paragraph *Sigh*)

well anyway, I has just completed a kind of journey through life ,where I've been given possibly some
answerable reasons why christianity is evil/not the way
etc..
and some reasons to believe Jesus was just a prophet or even Satan himself, I won't share these
because I think that would be foolish, but...
The final thing is Obey God and obey the ten commandments
and don't make up your own stuff or interpretations
of gods word

Now enough babbling ,on with the show...
I've through this journey done some indepth research on prophets and such and have
found only 1 recent example of a 100% accuracy prophet ,
he doesn't dabble in occultic nostrodamus stuff ,he was devoted to god! and received visions from God, now he warned of a war that will happen around about now in our time in South Africa! it'll happen when a great and honorable man is killed violently ,our country will do no work for seven days and there will be
a massive strike that cripples our country!

Now there is only one person this could be…Nelson Mandela!! So to those people on this forum
Blasting Nelson Mandela ,GOD called Nelson a Great and honorable man!!!! Enough said…
Anyway , this strike will mutate into a civil war which will encompass the whole of
Southern Africa and will last for a long time ,I don’t know how long a long time is though
Probably ten years or so

Now whats got me worried is I’m 31 next month, and NOW I run into this prediction by a
Prophet devoted to god, right on the day I finally finish this ‘Journey’ of mine!!!!
And decide finally that God is the only path!!!!!

I see some of you on this forum actually WANT a war like this!!! Well …it looks like
You are going to get it ! I hope you don’t live in this country, because he says that
This war will turn Africa, that’s AFRICA into a hell hole!!!
Every person I love and care for lives here in South Africa I can’t tell you how much this must
Not happen! It’s the reason I’m writing this here, every prediction that I’ve read on a forum
Has turned out to be rubbish……here’s hopeing!!!!!

One day, if you hear Mandela was killed you can know that I’ll be slouching over a PC
Somewhere in South Africa and I’ll get the Fright of my life!!!

[Tiger32]

Well, I obviously think that you are misguided. If you really knew the Bible you would know that Yeshua (a.k.a Jesus the Christ)is the fulfillment of the word of God. There were approximately 300 prophecies that were mentioned in the Old Testament to authenticate the true Messiah. Yeshua completed everyone of them. God knew that there would be misguided people like yourself in the world, who would get swept away by every wind and doctrine, that is why he made the Prophets lay out the detailed authentication process, so that everyone would know that Yeshua was the Messiah. All 300 prophecies are available for anyone to read.

Here are a few to chew on:

The Christ must come from the tribe of Judah, and be a descendant of King David:

OLD TESTAMENT
Jeremiah 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (KJV)
2 Samuel 7:16-17
And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David. (KJV)
Psalms 132:11
The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (KJV)
Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us. (KJV)
Matthew 15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (KJV)

OLD TESTAMENT
Isaiah 11:2
And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; (KJV)
Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (KJV)
Isaiah 61:1-3
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. (KJV)
Psalms 45:7
Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 3:16-17
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (KJV)
Matthew 12:17-21
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust. (KJV)
Mark 1:10-11
And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (KJV)
Luke 4:15-21
And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)
John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. (KJV)

OLD TESTAMENT
Psalms 41:9
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. (KJV)
Psalms 55:12-14
For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him: But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance. We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 10:4
Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. (KJV)
Matthew 26:47-50
And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him. And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him. (KJV)
John 13:21-26
When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake. Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it? Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. (KJV)
His Betrayal:

OLD TESTAMENT
Zechariah 11:12
And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. (KJV)
Exodus 21:32
If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 26:15
And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. (KJV)
Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, (KJV)

He shall be pierced in his hands in feet:

OLD TESTAMENT
Psalms 22:16
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (KJV)
Zechariah 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Luke 23:33
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. (KJV)
John 20:25-27
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (KJV)

They shall cast lots for his garments:

OLD TESTAMENT
Psalms 22:18
They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 27:35
And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. (KJV)
Mark 15:24
And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take. (KJV)
Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. (KJV)
John 19:23-24
Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did. (KJV)

He shall drink gall for his thirst:

OLD TESTAMENT
Psalms 69:21
They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 27:34
They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. (KJV)
Matthew 27:48
And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink. (KJV)
Mark 15:23
And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not. (KJV)
John 19:28-29
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. (KJV)

They shall pierce his side:

OLD TESTAMENT
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (KJV)
John 20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (KJV)

Father why am I forsaken by you:

OLD TESTAMENT
Psalms 22:1
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (KJV)
Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (KJV)

He shall teach by parables:

OLD TESTAMENT
Psalms 78:2
I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old: (KJV)

NEW TESTAMENT
Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: (KJV)
Mark 4:2
And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine, (KJV)
John 16:25
These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. (KJV)

The list goes on and on, Yeshua is unquestionably the Messiah, because he fulfilled the prophecies, a mere prophet could not have done what Christ done.

[Karagatho]

I normally don't like to be like this ,but most of what you pasted there doesn't connect !??
read the first one..
A Kingdom that will be established forever ? as in Israel?
That was Non-Existant less than 80 years ago?
Actually that ones proof for my argument!
The rest are meaningless!

I have been searching for proof of Jesus's Identity
and have mainly come up with some frightening facts
nothing to help, I WANT Jesus to be who you say he
is but I can't find out! I've read counter arguments
by leading church members but they all resort to
something similar to what you've just done,and they
return no solid answers!
Now this might sound REALLY weird ,but God kicked me out
of the church I was in ,It was a baptist church, I've
been trying to find out why, even tried returning there
but was given a warning! Why? the dots only connect
the way I don't want it to, How else can I save my family
without Jesus??

Maybe I've come here to find out? could be ?
Please answer me without pasting Bible quotes! I've got
one!

[Karagatho]

I quickly went and read that C.S.Lewis essay ,these
arguments I've heard before,and the counter argument
information I have is verrrry unnerving let me tell you
and they totally ignore facts we have today of just how
clever cultists can be when designing their own relegions
the old ,If he's a lunatic we could tell argument is
completely wrong! you could easly not be able to tell!
And I've been witness to some of the scope of Satans
intellegence, and I can see that alone, no person could
have a hope against it ,and yet also been witness to
how easy it is for God to destroy Satans schemes!!
In a word or a gesture he can do it, yet Satan can
get you so you think you are actually fighting him,
and end up preforming a pre-desinged sin in reverse
(Its hard to explain)

Man I hope I don't arrive a the day of judgement and
find out Jesus is really Jesus for my sake
....Might have a few words for him though,if I can work up the nerve!

Why must things be like this ?
Well ,I just hope I do whatever it is I'm slated to do
and find out the truth before its too late!

[Edited by Karagatho on 11th June 2003 at 21:53]

[Tiger32]

Originally posted by Karagatho
I normally don't like to be like this ,but most of what you pasted there doesn't connect !??
read the first one..
A Kingdom that will be established forever ? as in Israel?
That was Non-Existant less than 80 years ago?
Actually that ones proof for my argument!
The rest are meaningless!

Just because you are not equipped with the right heart or mind to understand these verses, does not make these verses meaningless. The world does not revolve around you.

As far as Christ's kingdom, it is an eternal kingdom, one that is spiritual, not flesh and blood. However every knee shall bow down to the King of Kings.

If you do not accept Yeshua into your life, you will burn in Hell forever.

The choice is up to you!

[Karagatho]

"Just because you are not equipped with the right heart or mind to understand these verses, does not make these verses meaningless. The world does not revolve around you. "

Back when I was in school, we used to have to go to church on a sunday ,there was a bus that dropped us off at
whichever church we picked ,now one sunday I went with my
africanse friend to the Herstigte-Herformde(Or something) church and
went in there ,only to learn that I was some sort of sub-human who didn't
know God and couldn't understand his works because I hadn't
passed their entrance course to this church ,and was booted out
No suprise that many of its members are serious racists who florished
during apartheid, and used this "Closeness to God" as there superiority excuse!!!!

You have just nailed me with that argument again!! now I know
I'm repeating myself, but I read a passage where
Jesus warns about making your own interpretations about what
is written in the bible! I just read the paragraph, and
understand the plain meaning, if there is now connection
then there IS no connection!

Look at that Gay thread you are fighting! (And you are right there by the way) look at some of the interpretations!
they are doing the same thing!

[Tiger32]

Originally posted by Karagatho
"Just because you are not equipped with the right heart or mind to understand these verses, does not make these verses meaningless. The world does not revolve around you. "

I went with my
africanse friend to the Herstigte-Herformde(Or something) church and
went in there ,only to learn that I was some sort of sub-human who didn't
know God and couldn't understand his works because I hadn't
passed their entrance course to this church ,and was booted out

Yeshua (Jesus the Christ) was a black man with hair like wool and skin like burned brass. (Revelation 1:14-15 and Daniel 7:6 makes this very clear).

I would agree that the Europeans have perverted Christianity with their false racist icons and idealogies. And I guarantee you that they will be punished accordingly.

However,I would not let them rob me of my free gift, which is eternal life through Yeshua.

But that is a decesion you must make, no one will force you to choose or reject Christ. It must be your own decision.