Do SA whites still believe this claptrap?

[Mntongenakudla]

Racist bigots!
Descendants of oppressors!

You have been defeated. I, the ANC cadre, has successfully exposed you white skunks for the devious, dishonest and denialists you are. The emperor is naked at last. You have failed to defend yourselves - silly pretenders. The sun has set on you. I have cast your racist demons into the sea. I have managed to expose, frustrate and discredit your pseudo white-supremacist silly minds. You have failed to hide your kith and kin white racists from the unequivocally clear culpability for apartheid crimes against us. Apartheid was an all and sundry white separatist privilege sytem. It had the blessing of all whites that never took a stand and were persecuted for opposing it publicly.

Being the skunks you are, the next thing one is bound to hear is that you were neutral during the apartheid era. That doesn't wash. As Archbishop Tutu said: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has his foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." True of the great man.

It is now crystal to all and sundry that: ALL WHITES IN SOUTH AFRICA WERE, ARE AND WILL ALWAYS REMAIN JOINTLY AND SEVERALLY LIABLE FOR THE APARTHEID SYSTEM. Pretty soon will be pay-back time. The sins of all white apartheid voters must now be seen to visit themselves upon the present and future white generations. I for one will not rest until they are seen to suffer retribution for the pains we continue to feel as a result of their racist thuggery.

On hindsight, one is led to support that thug Mugabe's terror on your race. You are equally brutal, and therefore deserve the vicious treatment that he visits upon your kinsmen. Racist goons!


uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
inkwali yenkosi
umcondo yegusha

Inxangiphilile
KwaDlangezwa
KwelikaMthaniya

[Woestynryer]

Mntongenakudla and Ches - Thought this is quite a good example.

You're both 'ANC' and both think of yourself as 'liberal'.Basically you should be on the same side.Why not then?

This description from the article is perfect:

'If you hate capitalism and globalisation, loathe the US, seethe with ethnic nationalism, see your people as the victims of an evil conspiracy and have a black skin, you are ‘an extreme left-winger’. If you hold exactly the same set of beliefs but have white skin, you are ‘an extreme right-winger’.

The article:

Afro-Saxon attitudes

[ches]

Woestyntjie

The difference is that I support the ANC for the values they have displayed through the 90-odd years of the party's existence, and for the values they display on their website. Mntongenakudla says he supports the ANC, but then he attributes all his values to the party, when in fact, his values are more closely aligned with the early-90's PAC. He only supports the ANC because he's backing the winner.

Incidentally, I don't consider myself a "liberal."

Ches

[Woestynryer]

I hear you Chessie ;-) I also see his views more like PAC.The thing is the ANC swallowed up smaller parties and people with extreme views went along.

That's not the point I was makingThe point I was making,or example rather, is you might have the same views as Mntongenakudla but because you're a white person with that views you're seen as a rightwinger or will be attacked in some way.

[Mntongenakudla]

Desert driver

Never discount the fact that even the most evil of people can eventually see the light and embrace human goodness. Saul became Paul after his Damascus 360 degrees turn. Yesteryear oppressors can also change after seeing the light of the new South Africa. We are always willing to accomodate new members into Amaqabane (ANC).

It is in this vein that I welcome the Mafikizolo (Johny-come-lately) Ches, the ex National Party fervent supporter, into the Amaqabane fold. It seems Ches, I hope alongside her NP long-serving member dad, has heeded Martinus Kortbroek's call to disband the discredited NNP and join the People's Contract. We will always be willing to forgive for as long as she acknowledges her apartheid culpability, but will never forget her complicity & hence joint and severally liability for the apartheid crimes against us, black South Africans.

Amandla awethu!
Maatla ke arona!

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
inkwali yenkosi
umcondo yegusha

Inxangiphilile
KwaDlangezwa
KwelikaMthaniya

[Woestynryer]

Mntongenakudla - Sure.I appreciate you can accept that people change.Sometimes we
have to change even if it's hard thing to do,including me and I'm sure you too.
Remember people have different experiences and even as hard as it may be, most of us try to understand each other,and work together.In this instance I personally feel rather than seeking disagreements sometimes,why not look sometimes for things we agree on?
We might find we are not so far apart in what we believe in,and even be surprised about things we do agree with.

At the end of the day Mntongenakudla we're all South Africans,different as night and day,but lets also embrace the things we have in common.If we do, we can create an even greater country.Let's start with the pride of being South African.Sharing a common nationality and work from the inside out.

Thanks for the input.My mother speaks fluent Xhosa.I still want to learn a 3 rd language but that which I can't I'll encourage my kids to do.
Out of curiosity.What does you name mean?

Desert Driver

[Avatar]

Some great posts. Mntongenakudla, I see though that you make an interesting distiction, but at the same time ignore it. In some parts of your posts, you refer to the joint culpability of all whites, and yet in others, you refer to apartheid voters. Not all whites in South Africa were, or even could have been, apartheid voters. Ten years and more on, the people just entering the workplace, and those who have only recently done so, were far too young at the time to have voted for the apartheid regime. At certain times, you seem to acknowledge this, and yet, as I said, at others you refer to all whites.

What you sometimes seem to be saying is that we are all laible for the "sins" of our fathers. (And even so, not all of our fathers were supporters of the NP.) Do you truly feel that even children in school today, who play without conflict alongside companions of different races, should be punished in some form for the fact that there was once an apartheid government in South Africa?

Yes, I certainly agree with your assesment that far too many of the whites in apartheid South Africa were willing to be led by the (relatively) few who profited from it, but I also feel that the same can be said of many people, in many countries. This includes both countries in which black Africans rule, and ones in which white Europeans and Americans rule. It's a fundamental condition of humanity that they seek to be told what to do. Even today in South Africa, it holds true to a certain extent. The reason that we have leaders is that people desire to be led. All people. Indeed, the struggle for rights and equality was not a question of being led, but simply a question of who would be doing the leading.

And never forget to take into account the insular nature of the lives of whites under the apartheid regime. With the strict control of the press, and continual efforts to "contain" "problems", the government of the day played these issues down as much as they could, except for when they wished to whip up a little fear, all to their own advantage.

We lived sheltered lives, and while the realities of discrimination and abuse may have been constant and obvious companions of yourself, they were certainly not an obvious part of the landscape to perhaps even the majority of white South Africans in those days. Speaking personally, I was too young to vote when Nelson Mandela became our president. I grew up in a liberal household, but was no less sheltered for that. Never hearing my parents or family members mention blacks in any but the most respectful way, I can honestly say that it wasn't until I entered high school that I even became aware that racism existed, and was a part of everyday life for some people. My surprise at this, and my willingness to debate and disagree with others on the issue, soon led to me being the bearer of several unpleasant sobriquets, conferred on me, and those who agreed with me, by more "conservative" classmates.

I personally do not accept any liability for apartheid. I can and do deplore and regret the fact that it existed, but it existed completely independantly of, and in contradiction to, my actions, thoughts and opinions. By the time that I was in a position to excercise any influence on the political process, (as tiny as the influence that one person can exert thereon is), apartheid was over, we had a black president, and we were moving forward proudly as a supposedly united country, with all people equal under the law.

To state so boldly that I should suffer the consequences of the fact that the country in which I was born not only condoned, but actively promoted such a policy, smacks of nothing so much as discrimination to me. I love this country, I live here, and I do what I can to make it a better place, for the benefit of all it's inhabitants. I continue to do as I always have, and treat people on the basis of their actions towards me and others, and not on any other consideration, be it religious, cultural, societal or racial.

To advocate the punishment of myself, and the many others like me, is not far short of following in the footsteps of that old and dead regime that you so rightly abhor. We keep the past alive in our memories, as we should. And the reason that we should is to prevent us from making the same mistakes. However, it is our choices that give life to the future, and the future is what we should focus on.

We still have some distance to go in order to create a balanced society, but I am, and always have been, hopeful that we shall achieve it. To achieve it however, we must keep that dead past where it belongs. In our memories as an object lesson for the children who will follow us. To create a new racsist society in the mould of the old one will be a terrible tradgedy.

As WoestynRyer said, let us discover and embrace what we hold in common, at the same time as we celebrate our differences, rather than using them to divide us further.

Peace.
--Avatar