Do SA whites still believe this claptrap?

[Mntongenakudla]

Desert driver

My name is in isiZulu, literally meaning: ‘A person who has no food’. Umuntu is isiZulu for a person. Ongena means: who has no or who is without. Ukudla means food. All these words are put together into a name: Mntongenakudla. I adopted this name from the late chief of my clan in the North Coast of KwaZulu, at Ongoye, KwaDlangezwa, eMpangeni.

May I ask: was the controversial Nubianman and his other African American brothers banned from this forum? If so, then I’m mortified . Those guys were balancing the scales against the right wing extremists like that secessionist Afrikaner guy. And their debates were rigorous and entertaining. Why ban them and leave the right wingers unabated?

Come on guys, this is the new South Africa. Let us seek not to silence the voices of those we do not agree with. Let us seek not to gag them. Let us seek not to monopolise political perspectives and only concede to those that tell us what we want to hear. Let us celebrate our diversity and foster human understanding by articulating issues broadly and open-mindedly.

As the great French philosopher Voltaire once advised on true democracy: 'Even if an opponent disagrees with me, I will still die fighting for the freedom of expression to be extended to that very person opposing me'. True indeed. Let all voices have a home in this microcosm of a new democratic, tolerant, rainbow nation of South Africa. I believe that, if there is freedom of expression, folly will die of its own poison and wisdom will prevail.

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I must acknowledge your very sobering perspective. If only most white people in South Africa were like you – there wouldn’t have been an NP reign of terror in the pre-1994 era.

Yeah, you epitomize the new SA as ushered in by Amaqabane. Yeah, you’re a marvel, a role model for all young people - all colours.

Be that as it may, I must hasten to add that, good people like you are rare among white South Africans as I interact on a daily basis. It’s unfortunate that there remains, to a very large extent, a majority of white South Africans who cannot embrace blacks as equals, let alone as human. Apartheid may have been wiped off the statutes, but it continues to rear its ugly head in our everyday lives. The vestiges of apartheid are still there to be felt and seen by black people in the workplaces, schools, social circles and political spheres. That we must not deny. Black people are victimized, doused in oil paint, dragged with bakkies, thrown into lions’ dens. That we must condemn and seek to purge.

I have seen many faces and places in my life. I have been part of a generation that threw stones – a small contribution towards bringing down the apartheid order. I have sought to see a new order that assesses a man, not by the colour of his skin, but by the content of his character. But the reality of racism has hit me in the face. I live with it everyday of my working life and I cannot wish it away. And it comes in some subtle, yet sickening ways that you, the victim, cannot publicly repel & rebuke without being arraigned for being an aggressor. It just becomes a cul de sac.

This is the very injustice that leads me to seek to bring to the fore of this public forum that, the black nation will never forget the past. We will never allow anyone to trivialize our pains of the past, and seek to hoodwink us to believe that we are lesser beings that lower standards in every sphere of life we’re thrust in. We will never allow ourselves to be used as statistics in the Affirmative Action quotas – being given a piece of the action, and not the cash cow.

Bygones won’t be treated as past for as long as there exists the majority white attitude of refusing to own up for apartheid excesses. We will never be cheated into understanding that the majority of white South Africa opposed the NP regime. The complicity of all (except a tiny number that publicly came out in opposition) white people to apartheid is there for all to see. The irresponsibility in their voting choices, that gave them skewed and unfair privileges, whilst simultaneously pushing the black man into abject poverty, shame and sub-human levels, must be raised and condemned. And those apartheid era white privileges cascaded to the unborn white kids. Yes it’s true – today the average young white person is economically miles ahead of the average black man. The average black man has far too many barriers to his progress today, as a direct result of apartheid that killed off his forebearers’ potential & opportunities. This accounts for the criminal black youth elements. Yet when AA seeks to balance these historically grossly skewed scales, a loud shout by a majority white section is heard to the effect that standards are dropping, black people are lazy, dull, inferior, ‘stealing jobs from deserving white paragons’ etc. All this going directly against the background of immense black tolerance and restraint from reigning retribution on the white population in general, for its responsibility for apartheid.

When all is said and done, I will still reiterate that, in order to build and sustain the rainbow nation, it is about time that more white people come to the party. It is about time that more white people learn to walk in the moccasins of the previously downtrodden black man. Time for them to acknowledge that they, in toto, wronged us and let all humanity down by supporting NP, voting for the sustenance of their apartheid immoral privileges. That they wronged us by supping with the devil, being indifferent to the evil visited upon us and being in complicity with evil by allowing their youngsters to be conscripted into state thuggery against the black nation.

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
inkwali yenkosi
umcondo yegusha

Inxangiphilile
KwaDlangezwa
KwelikaMthaniya

[Woestynryer]

Mntongenakudla - Thanks for the interesting explanation and make-up of your name.Very original.Of course you may ask why they were banned.There are quite a few people not welcome here and may I add it's people from other groups,not a specific one.Being a moderator you have to be neutral and take hits from all sides of the spectrum.

The other people you refer to,please take in mind many of the people that posted on here has long gone.Sometimes people do not check the dates when something was posted and probably think it was recent.Some very old posts still create controversy.

First Mntongenakudla, Nubianman/the magician and peaceinafrica were the same person.
Creating multiple logins.

Secondly this person has not kept to Forum rules after repeated requests to do so.
If you followed his posts from the start a clear picture will evolve.

These rules include hate and inflammatory speech, as well as racist,prejudiced and sexist remarks.

Personally I won't call this guy my brother.I'd be too ashamed.Eugene Terblanche I would be too ashamed to call a fellow Afrikaner.These people have twisted ignorant views I don't want to associate myself with.However,if Nubianman/the magician/peaceinafrica and even Eugene Terblanche can have decent debate's and want to contribute in positive ways,even still disagreeing,then they are both welcome here.Until then they just have to accept even in democratic country hate speech can get you behind bars.There's no bars here but that's where I come in.To uphold normal healty debate and make sure the rules of this forum is upheld.

We try and keep this an open friendly and constructive atmosphere to contribute in.
People are definately not blocked because they disagree.Far from it.We welcome disagreements from all people but we will be tough on individuals that are incapable of having decent conversations and breaking rules because of a very deadly ingnorance they keep on potraying.People from all over come here to learn from each other and help build better undertandings.It's no good when one person try and break down that foundation because of a small mindset.We want to move forward.Not backward.

Please enjoy the forum.Contribute and disagree.There's nothing wrong with agreeing now and then when you see someone saying something you like.This forum is not just about disagreeing either.People seem to forget this.
We're all adults.Today we can have a heated discussion and tomorrow we can laugh about it.

My personal opinion is like I say.We're all South African.I personally see all fellow South Africans as my brothers and sisters.Whether I sometimes disagree with them or not.

As a South African citizen ,in normal life, my priorities lie to my fellow South African citizens first.Race should not determine where a person's loyalty lie.You Mntongenakudla are a fellow South African and our loyalties should be to each other.That's the only way we can create a pride and patriotism for ourselves,our children and our country.The day people start thinking in that direction South Africa will excel at a very high speed.

[ches]

Mntongenakudla

Thank you for your change in approach to this forum. I now welcome serious debate with you. However, please clarify for me which of your posts reflects your true opinion? Your most recent? Or your earliest?

Ches

[Mntongenakudla]

Ches

May I state that debate is being stifled on this website by those of your ilk who thrive on a directionless buddy-buddy philosophy of patronising. So many thriving intellectual debaters have been rubbished in this forum by those of your ilk and labelled radical, black fascists, nonsensical etc. Ultimately, they've been gagged, their thoughts muzzled, their minds controlled or at worst - banned from this forum.

You specifically seem to thrive on being patted in the back and told what you want to hear. Behold, now you seem to love my style, just because I have said things you wanted to hear. My foot.

Askis - I beg your pardon.

I toned down just to lull you into a false sense of security. Tell you what: I will not allow myself to please you by debating on your own terms.

Instead, I will continue being rigorous and truthful. I will still take the hard, unpalatable facts of your joint & several apartheid liability to your door-step. And I expect you to ignore them because you prefer me telling you what you wanna hear.

I still stand fully behind all the uncomfortable facts I left at your door-steps before.

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
inkwali yenkosi
umcondo yegusha

Inxangiphilile
KwaDlangezwa
KwelikaMthaniya

[ches]

Originally Posted by Mntongenakudla

I toned down just to lull you into a false sense of security. Tell you what: I will not allow myself to please you by debating on your own terms.

Back onto the ignore list then. Thanks for the clarification.

[Avatar]

First, apologies for my absence, I’ve been without internet access for the last 10 days, so have been unable to visit.

Mntongenakudla—I appreciate your response to my remarks, and hasten to add that I’m sorry that you are in an environment in which you still experience the indignity of racism on a daily basis. However, it is something that I firmly believe will change, and in fact, is in the process of changing.

Unfortunately, the changing of somebody’s opinions, especially opinions that are less a product of reason than of inculcation from birth, is never a simple task, even as you yourself must realise, and have experienced in both black and white society.

Perhaps the only thing that we new South Africans can hope for is the eventual death of the old guard. Until then, opinions about others formed at the height of the old regime on both sides will continue to affect our daily lives.

The “black nation” must never forget the past. But it must also be understood why that past must be remembered. Not to fuel bitterness, not to provide an excuse for anything, but to keep us aware of the dangers of inaction, and blind acceptance of the ruling party. Regardless of who that ruling party is. Our government must always be open to criticism and debate, and must always be held accountable. This is perhaps one of the lessons of Apartheid.

And equally, although I certainly agree that some of the results of apartheid are the stumbling blocks you mention, and that the results of these stumbling blocks directly contribute to a criminal youth, the government cannot spend the next 10 years blaming them, while continuing to do too little to address them. Affirmative action is not the be all and end all of solutions to this problem. Another part of the solution is the willingness of government to direct more funding into programs to improve the situation, and less funding on the improvement of the personal quality of life of the members thereof.

This is not to say that they should not enjoy some benefits, but increasingly it seems that the benefits are getting a higher priority. If the government is not careful, it will be they themselves who are failing the people who voted them into power. How long will apartheid be valid as an excuse for such small progress? How many politicians can continue to improve their own lives at the expense of their constituents? And for how long? How long can politicians excuse their self-enrichment by claiming that their part in the struggle makes it alright for them to fill their own pockets? Not for long, I hope. I fervently hope.

While it is understandable to place blame on a ten years and more dead regime, a time must come when the responsibility of the government for the nations progress or lack thereof is also considered.

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[Joburg-Taiwan]

I understand where Mntongenakudla is coming from. There is still a lot of anger out there about what happened in our country. The truth is that white people still benefit from what happened then. This won't change for at least our lifetime. It did make a privileged class based on skin colour, and these privileges are generational. If you have seen your father beaten up by some white guy and then tossed into a cheese van, you will never forget it. Never.

The economic inequality in this country is staggering. Sandton, that evil, soulless, capitalistic place is just a stone throw away from Alex. If you live in some sections of Soweto, you have to fight like hell just to get to the starting gate. By that time the other guys have already finished the first or second lap. It is near impossible to catch up without help. Despite this, some people do catch up. We should all be cheering wildly at what these guys accomplish, instead of complaining about the waitering job we are stuck in or the six months it took to find a job. There are people that haven't had a job in ten years and have no prospect of getting one. The pressure is building and everyone won't wait forever.

The white folk in this country should be thankful for what we still have. In other revolutions, like the French one, the privileged classes lost their heads. The attitude of "I worked hard to get the ten chickens I have. Why should I give you one? It's not my fault you have none?" is bull. The chicken coup and the nesting hens we got from our fathers, and they prevented others from building their own chicken coups. We white people should wake up and smell the coffee. Go and work in Soweto, or any peri-urban place, and you will see how hard life still is for the vast majority of people in this country. A man's got to eat, and if you don't have anything, things get desperate.

The capitalist p igs that still control our economy won't give an inch, but they made their blood-money under the previous government. When the shi t strikes the fan, believe me, they will sit in their comfy mansions in Europe somewhere and wont give a damn about their Afrikaner or English fellow country men. They will sleep peacefully while SA burns. The whites in this country must stop covering for these bastards.

This country will only be one when we all live and love together and our kids look like Ronaldo.