As a white South African what am I supposed to think?

[Blueskies]

"http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN650053.html
S.Africa police pay price for violent crime - report
Tue 6 Nov 2007, 13:54 GMT

OHANNESBURG (Reuters) - More South African police officers were killed in the 11 years since the end of apartheid than in the previous period, a new study that highlights one of the world's highest crime rates showed on Tuesday.

The South African Institute of Race Relations said 1,894 police officers were killed between 1995 and 2005, compared to 1,152 between 1983 and 1993, the last years of apartheid, which was marked by political violence and a state of emergency.

"This is a reflection of the violent nature of our society," said Frans Cronje, development director at SAIRR.

"Obviously the police are paying the price of the high crime rates we are facing, they are at the forefront of this crime," Cronje said.

South African police reported in its annual crime statistics in July that murders, carjackings and violent robberies rose in the past year, despite efforts to reduce one of the world's highest crime rates.

The country's murder rate jumped 2.4 percent between April 1, 2006 and March 31, 2007, the South African police report said. There were 19,202 murders during the period.

Cronje said that although in most cases the police are equipped to combat crime, there are questions about their fitness, training and psychological preparedness, given a very high suicide rate among police officers.

But South African police refute suggestions that they are not trained to tackle crime.

"It is unfair to say that officers are not trained to respond to these violent criminals. In some instances, it might have some truth in it, but mostly it is not true because we have had numerous successes," said Superintendent Eugene Opperman, police spokesman for the Guateng province.

"There are criminals out there who have got no respect whatsoever for the law, and police officers come under a lot of armed attack," said Opperman, whose region includes Johannesburg and faces some of the country's worst crime rates."

Please come up with some rationale that would put the above into perspective for South Africans and state it here so that ALL may understand and accept. The 'lassez affaire" approach of your rational in previous posts "kill and rape" and forgive attitude is hard to comprehend.

[Som-pride]

you just said "only 2% of the 45 million are crimminals" and then you say -when I see a black person I think he is out to get me ? how can you suspect all black ppl when u said only 2% are crimminals.
have faith in God, you wan't miss your fate --what is writtent to happen to you will happen to you!

[Skhotha]

AmaZulu were definitely spiritually enlightened

1. They believed in a being usually called uMvelinqange meaning the one who came first. Just like the christian/ muslim notion of one God.
2. uMvelinqange was/ is the supreme being and controls the whole universe this world and the next.
3. When a person died their spirit lived on in the next world and if that spirit was of a good nature they were able to intervene on the families behalf to uMvelinqange.

In terms of the general history of the amaZulu, I have not heard of slavery. In my limited understanding of history King Shaka conquered a number of smaller clans and turned them into a nation under his clan name of amaZulu. They weren't enslaved.
The African tribes of South Africa were stripped of their identity, land and rights by the europeans.
Change is not easy to accept. A number of "white" south africans will say " I have many black friends" " I am not a racist" "Why should a black person be given my job?". The truth is this: Whether you were involved or not. A descendant of yours benefitted from either apartheid or colonialism. It is sad that you should sacrifice so that 80% of the country controls 80% of its economy but how else would you have it?

[Moonwalker]

Originally Posted by Skhotha

The African tribes of South Africa were stripped of their identity, land and rights by the europeans.

As far as my history goes, I have always believed that the original inhabitants of SA were the bushman....
the little people with their beautifull rock paintings
The Europeans came by sea, and the Africans from the north..so who has the right to SA?

I stand to be corrected.....

[Slug71]

Why does everyone look at the pre-apartheid history of the country and toward who the first inhabitants were to try and justify whats going on there today? That is history and nothing can justify what is happening there today. It doesnt only affect a certain percentage of the population it affects EVERYONE. The crime between blacks themselves is probably higher than against any other colour. But crime is commited by all nationalities in South Africa. I dont agree with the apartheid era and much of the crime there today is due to lack of education thanks again to whites. But as South Africans not colour we should be looking to the future and for solutions for a better life for EVERYONE and dwelling in the past is not gonna make that happen. The fact is like in many if not all countries not just South Africa, there are multi-nationalities living in them and no longer just the first people to live there. If you were born and raised in South Africa, YOU ARE SOUTH AFRICAN. You have the rights of any other like yourself regardless of colour. The Rand 20 years or so ago used to be twice as strong as the Pound. South Africans were highly acknowledged WORLD wide for many things but now thanks to the Selfishness among one another and the lack of Patriotism for the Beautiful country South Africa is and what was achieved, look where we are today. South Africans are now to busy trying to impress one another with the clothes they wear and the cars they drive which in other countries the people couldnt care a less about. And ive lived in 2 others. Whats happening there now is just wrong and needs to be stopped period.
My few cents.

[Skhotha]

I agree with the sentiment that during the apartheid era SA was seen to be a positive economy. How difficult could it be to out perform other countries when you can use slave labour? The country as a whole was producing more than it consumed because 80% was feeding 20% with their lives.

I know it is not that simple but I just wanted to demonstrate why the apartheid era economy is not a fair benchmark. I'm not amazed that currently we are suffering from many challenges including load shedding. Just to give you a first hand example of the remnants of apartheid. Where I live there is an area that falls under the " rule" of an inkosi. It borders the township and many families who's members worked in the nearby town built their homes there. Remember that in the old says you couldn't have your family out of the 'homelands" unless you could get a 4 room house allocated by the township super. So this area provided an alternative because all one had to do was to petition the inkosi to consider you as a "subject" and thus provide you with land to build a house for your family. Technically you lived in the "homeland".
Families grow and enterprising people will build bigger good looking houses but there were some catches in the form of sewerage and electricity. The bathrooms were left empty in most cases and the walls had no plug points. Then came "freedom". People wanted to electrify their homes and guess what, ESKOM was not able to include these homes on their grid!!! They still have no electricity or sewerage works.
In short I feel that now that we are all sharing our country, a lot more things will be put under pressure and some things won't hold.

As for who has rights over SA I also stand corrected. If the Nguni weren't living by some sort of understanding with the Khoi I only see a few deductions. Firstly if the Nguni had stolen the land from the Khoi, there would be no Khoi today because they would be Nguni since they would have been absorbed. Lastly maybe the Khoi were at home on the beaches to the South of the country as they are / were nomadic by nature.

I'm no boffin but those who know are welcome to enlighten me!

[Slug71]

I appreciate your response and what you say is true. I'm just saying that we can have that strong economy again. Nothing is impossible but it takes work and commitment and the people need to start seeing beyond all the bull****.
I'm in the U.S.A at the moment and yesterday was Memorial day here, A day to remember fallen veterans of the country and it amazed me to see how patriotic they were for their troops. 90% of Americans dont agree with the war but they stand 100% behind the troops fighting and that lost their lives.
If S.A were to go to war today i could never see that kind of patriotism and support for its people by the South Africans not on the front lines.
People also didnt take land over from from people but all the native animals too. Look how the animal population has dwindled and Rhino's near extinction. The animals had/have just as much right being there as people do without being killed off for whatever purpose.
As for ESKOM and sewerage, the only way to get around that is to build more Power Stations and Sewer Plants. But who's gonna pay for that? Thats why people have Power/Water bills. Both Power Stations and Sewer Plants have a maximum capacity that they can run at. If you power more than what it can do then you ARE gonna have power shortages and failures. Same goes for sewer. So the government thought they would get more backing and support by giving free power/sewerage out to poor townships but the Plants have now run over their capacity. Very poor and stupid judgement by the government. So now more need to be built but that requires money which means people are gonna have to pay for it because the government sure as hell isnt. That means no new 4x4.