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  • #16
    Yep, I agree, just keep right on doing just that until none of you oxygen thieves are left.


    • #17
      I've been called many things but never a child of Lucifer.

      The word "Lucifer" b.t.w, is the incorect name as he cannot answer to it.

      Us South Africans have become extremely "politically correct" so please, call something by its proper name. No misunderstandings. Heaven forbid.

      "Children of Lucifer" would in-fact be the angels who were under "Lucifer" while he was still in heaven.
      Once cast down he was no longer allowed to use that name as it carried with it honour and duty, to God.

      So for all intents and puposes (according to you) we are angels, why thank you buddy. You're most kind.



      • #18
        I guess history depends on who you ask or what information you read. Some say the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Although your depiction of your ancestors seems quite farfetched in contrast to what I have read. For instance

        boer’ = farmer and ‘trek’ = journey or trip; thus, literally, ‘trekboer’ means ‘traveling farmer’ or ‘migrating farmer’ although the company was Dutch, a significant proportion of the employees were foreigners from other parts of Europe, including a number of Germans. Like the French Foreign Legion in more recent times, the VOC was a refuge for people who wanted (or needed) to get away; employees, sometimes described as the ‘scum of Europe’In the original settlement at Cape Town to the west of the Hottentots Holland Mtns., the emphasis was upon agriculture. However, the Company had been unable to prevent burgers from acquiring and keeping cattle.

        - the mountains had become the boundary, but as herds grew in the Stellenbosch-Paarl area, some farmers began to take their cattle into and beyond the mountains for additional pasturage for at least part of the year. There was an evolution as the distances became greater and some farmers would stay longer. Also, younger men who wanted to become independent and get married found that this was an alternative.This development began an interesting process: Boers had much fewer material and intellectual/cultural ties with Cape Town as distance increased. Educational levels declined and many were illiterate or nearly so.They were thrown mostly on their own resources in regard to religious instruction and training.
        Standards of living were reduced; most built only crude sod houses or even lived in wagons.
        Cash virtually disappeared as wealth became mainly cattle, trade was in exchange and barter, and self-sufficiency became the major rule for families.
        In these respects, they became more and more like the indigenous peoples—pastoralists and a bit footloose.They did try to maintain their religion, although they tended to develop their own unique interpretations of the Bible and special interpretations of Calvinism (e.g., Afrikaners as a ‘Chosen people’).The nature of pastoralism and the dryness of the country meant that the trekboer population was very dispersed; farms were very large (6,000 acres or more). It was said that trekboers did not like to be able to see smoke from a neighbour’s farm.
        They tended to marry at an early age (17-19 for men and 15-18 for women) and as a result, they had large families; this resulted in rapid population growth.There was also a large demand for labour to tend stock and as servants, but trekboers had little cash and few could buy slaves; thus, they came to rely upon the Khoikhoi and to coerce them into providing the needed labour.
        In the struggle for land and water, Khoikhoi society had largely disintegrated and Khoikhoi were largely on their own in relatively small groups; with the advantages of guns and horses, the commando system was adequate to overcome most Khoikhoi resistance.Thus, Khoikhoi survivors were forced into becoming a subordinate labour supply; while nominally ‘free’, they were little better off (in some ways perhaps worse off) than slaves. We discussed some aspects of the mechanisms whites used in controlling and coercing the Khoikhoi and people of mixed genetic background as a labour supply.

        - re: the procedure for holding land; initially (finally giving in to what was happening anyway) the Company had begun to issue permits to go beyond the boundaries claimed by the Company in order to use grazing areas.
        - at first, the permits did not define specific areas or register specific areas with Company agents; the Company did charge fees or tithes for the use of the land; this suited pastoralists as there was no up-front capital charges to buy land and they could move off to new, ‘greener’ pastures without loss.Boers did not recognise any title or claim of Khoikhoi; such ownership rights were only for ‘Christians’ which increasingly was synonymous with possessing a white skin.When trekboers saw land they wanted and if no whites already claimed it or were in possession, then they felt at liberty to claim it and take possession regardless of the fact that Khoikhoi might already be occupying and using it.If Khoikhoi offered resistance, the trekboers would call upon the assistance of others if the resistance was beyond the family’s resources; they could usually expect help because a commando was mainly an opportunity to rustle cattle or perhaps acquire land for oneself or one’s sons.In this way Khoikhoi were driven out or, once dispossessed of their cattle, reduced to becoming labour for the trekboers; if they submitted, they would be allowed to keep some cattle, in return for providing labour services.As the century wore on, trekboers became more decided and determined in rejecting any idea than anyone other than a ‘Christian’ (white) could claim to own land.There are other evidences of a growing intolerance by the last quarter of the 18th C; whites began to object to non-whites being in the same commando with whites; they began to insist that they be put into separate commandos (i.e., segregated). Some wanted to go even further to restrict their use of guns and shouldn’t allow them in commando at all. Recent interpretations tend to stress more mundane factors and motivations for the movement. Migration to acquire more land had been bottled up for 40-50 years and there was a growing number of landless white males. In Boer society, this was a terrible situation and fate. Their only course was to become a ‘bywoner’ to some relative or other farmer with land. As such, they would provide services (usually as an overseer) and be allowed to use some land for a few cattle or agricultural purposes. This meant that their status was only a bit better than non-white servants.

        This ethos affected others as well; British and other white immigrants to the South African Republic in the 1890s very quickly adopted virtually the same attitudes about the relations between the racial groups (i.e., whites dominant and non-whites very much subordinate).

        Not exactly the romantic picture you paint of the Boers bringing technology and education to Africa with them. Seems more like guns and and violence to me. Scum of Europe they were called. Wow such an entirely different history.
        But that is common,that is why most history books are referred to as His story.(white mans)But there was one important and lucrative trade across the Sahara for well over a thousand years before European ships arrived. Camel trains carried gold northward - and it was the gold of West Africa which provided the fuel for the European Renaissance. The gold came from great civilizations which later Europeans did their best to ignore, so as not to disturb their notion that Africans were barbaric savages. Until some three thousand years ago, Africa south of the Sahara was populated by scattered tribes who lived by trapping animals and gathering wild fruits or plants. But then Bantu-speaking groups migrated out of the rainforests of West Africa. They had reached the Congo by about 500 BC, Kenya by about AD 100 and South Africa by about AD 300. Curiously enough this is one historical fact that we do need to know. Many white South Africans nowadays claim that the land was uninhabited by Bantu farmers when the first Dutch settlers arrived in the seventeenth century. In fact the ancestors of tribes such as the Xhosa, Tswana and Zulu had been in South Africa for over a thousand years.


        • #19
          Ha Ha

          A child of Lucifer! HA HA! that is ironic as without us you wouldnt even know what Lucifer is! We converted you heathens in Africa to Christianity to save your souls, and you have the cheek to call me that! You CHRISSEN2 aren't even African. I dunno about anyone else here but i am getting really p**sed off at these foreigners who claim to know what's happening in SA, or think they are learned in the situation, even though thay have never set foot here. So go take a hike CHRISSEN2, you bloody pretender!


          • #20
            Chrissin2, are you black, white, yellow, red (, green)?

            I know, like a big bit of world, that men from England and Netherlands (so not whites like me, honey!) got, in past and present, horrible things to africans, like death.
            But if you want to clear South Africa from them you can not use the force (like Shakazulu I think), but the intelligence (like Mandela I think).
            The great problem, after, is: how much will you clear SA?
            I think before you must eliminate gold, diamonds, moneys, cars, cellphones, computers, CDs stereo and all things that "whites" had imported in SA from their culture!
            But I think it's very very very improbable you are able to make this because blacks like all that things. I know because here, in my country, I can see that every day!
            I learn thant only thing that black africans do not like of "whites" culture is the condom! And it has been a fatal error!
            More intelligence, more knowing, less violence! That's Ghandi!!!


            • #21
              Nil desperandum, aDAMa

              Originally posted by aDAMa
              chrissin2, I was born in South Africa and have lived my whole life in this country, still I know that its not my country cause I’m white. If I could demand (like the black people do over here with land reforming) citizenship in the country of my forefathers (witch came to this country in the 1600's) I would move back to that country (Germany in my case) without a second thought to get away from this damned by God continent. Unfortunately I suffer like all South Africans under a very poor economy (never mind other African countries) and will never have enough money to emigrate.

              Its not very nice being white in South Africa if you’re young, even though I'm not racist and had nothing to do with apartheid ever. Damn the power that the white apartheid generation had.
              I realize your frustrations in a S.Africa that is changing rapidly.I suffered much under aparthed and saw others also suffer. I am a person of Indian descent now living in U.S.A.
              I have seen how ruthlessly blacks were treated by some whites and some Indians.Often ,I look back at events and weep inside.However, not all whites nor all Indians were racists.I am a pacifist who believes in the brotherhood (and sisterhood of mankind).I did have friends of all different colors and sizes. But, what I greatly regret is the attempts by the racist and myopic government to ardently keep races apart. As a result I did not enjoy the degree of closeness with blacks, as I did with the others.You certainly know how blacks were compelled to carry passes, live in their own areas, suffer the indignities of curfew etc.

              We had a housekeeper who was treated as a member of our family.Disregarding the law, we
              had her live in our house. She was very honest,sincere,trustworthy, compassionate etc
              and my family and others close to us often talked about her humility and the absence of
              the evils that pervade societies. If I were name a saint on earth I would name her without any hesitation. She was indeed a model worthy of emulation. Because of the pathetic conditions under which she had lived during her childhood, she failed to get a good formal education.But, in no way did this limitation diminish her saintly characteristics.She ate with us, she travelled with us whenever we went to visit friends and relatives, she shared in our joys and sorrows. When my mother died under tragic circumstances, she still lived in our house and acted like a mother to me. When I emigrated from S./A. to USA I would have taken her. But, she felt that the new country would not be easy for her adjust. When I left one of my sisters invited her to live with her and her family. She has now passed on but memories of her still live on in my mind. Sadly, as a result of the cruel and repugnant policies of apartheid, this saintly person because of her colour had to endure mental and physical pain ,and the indignities that apartheid imposed on fellow human beings. Who knows to what level she would have ascended in society if she had gone to school and enjoyed all the privileges that many whites and some Indians enjoyed.

              I know a large number of blacks,Indians and whites and coloureds have lost their lives fighting for their freedom and freedom of blacks, and as a result of apartheid. If you were not a racist you should not feel guilty for the wrongs committed by your forefathers.I do not feel that wrongs of one's ancestors should be transferred to succeeding generations. It is understandable that you regret the atrocities that had been committed by your relatives on
              a group of people because of racial differences.

              I am now a US resident but for some reason I have not taken on U.S. citizenship- I am still a S.Africa. U.S. is not the country that Americans brag it to be. It is one of the four countries
              that practised( and is still practising) the reprehensible system of segregation. Racial discrimination and all the undesirable elements that go them are very much alive in this
              "land of milk and honey." I have friends of all colours here and some of them inquire about my comfort in the U.S.A. My usual response : " I came to the land of milk and honey to pick up gold from its streets. What happened to me? I was kicked by the cows and stung by the bees." Ironically, when blacks were fighting for their right to be treated as equals in the U.S.A , the U.S.A. was pushing S.Africa to change its abhorrent policies. A case of the kettle calling the pot black.

              In order to end hatred, all S.Africans need to recogize that hatred only breeds greater hatred. Blacks are not inferior nor ar whites and all the other groups. I do not feel that whites are intellectually superior to blacks, and vice versa.We as individuals have intellectual differences but race has nothing to do with it. If whites were oppressed by blacks (the way the Nationalist govt. promoted this) without a doubt whites would be in the same position as the blacks in S.A. today.

              I also feel sad that some blacks are advocating the eradication of whites from S.Africa. All whites should not be held responsible for the deeds of some members of a group.

              aDAMa I wish you the best in adjusting to a rapidly changing S.A. May you be treated with the dignity that you deserve.


              with the blacks I knew


              • #22
                A fresh breeze

                nahtan, your post is like a fresh breeze.

                I am a white Afrikaner and love this country. I am happy that we are a democracy at last, and that apartheid is gone. It is true that some black people are still angry and are racist towards whites, something that I understand. It is remarkable though to see black people open up towards me when they find that I respect them and accept them as complete humans who deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. Unfortunately a lot of whites have not stopped being racist, hence the remaining racial tension still being present.

                We can change this situation by respect and love for human beings instead of using our differences as being the cause for our perceptions. Having different cultures is no reason to disrespect people. I have built my new home in a rural village and is very happy there. I learn from the black people as they also learn from me. Believe me, I have learned much since I moved here.

                I love this country and the diverse people, our beautiful rainbow nation!


                • #23
                  I agree treating others, and ourselves, with respect and dignity (regardless of who they are) is the way to build relationships and move this awesome country in the right direction.
                  If we each individually make an effort to do this with the people we come into contact with each day - it would make a huge difference in our efforts to live together in peace.
                  Freedom's just another word for 'nothing left to lose' ...


                  • #24
                    A Response

                    I really didn't think there were such narrow minded people living in this world, then again there is a first for everything.

                    How does anyone come to that conclusion????

                    1.) How does one tell if someone is a pure European and a pure African?

                    2.) Who can be given the right to claim a country-let alone a continent-for one race as we are all human beings?

                    3.) Which "god" and "lucifer" is being referred to by the title: "LUCIFER'S CHILDREN"?

                    4.) Is the presumption that European or non-black people (this is not implying that European people aren't black, but simply what is said) have only put Africa in bondage?

                    5.) Can one sleep at night if they call others "LUCIFER'S CHILDREN"?

                    PLEASE TELL ME....I IMPLORE YOU ALL.


                    • #25
                      I realize I am a bit late to the discussion, but I just had to comment. This is either a very successful troll who is laughing his ass of, or this person is entirely serious. If the latter is true, this is my response: Please I beg of you make this country interesting again.


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Foambather
                        I haven't read this entire thread, for I don't want to spoil my mood. I did read the stupid first post by what I at first thought was a lame joker, but which might be an actual idiot.

                        All I can say about the matter is that I do wish there was a place where white people and all other races other than black, could go on vacation for 20 to 30 years, then come back.

                        That way we'll find a clean slate of a barren landscape we can populate again.
                        Sadly, the world is full of "actual idiots" - just check out the 7 o'clock South African news to see some.
                        Freedom's just another word for 'nothing left to lose' ...